Curse

Roshi_ikkyu · Oct 01, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Lately I've noticed alot of threads blaming inflation and high prices on a few things

* Bots. The programmes that farm gold in certain areas.
-The favourite icon of many haters.
* Farmers. Solo, 2-man, Group. Gold, Items, Greens or even materials

* Sellers/ Trader. A mystical group of people who single handedly set and organise the prices of the GW market.

So what are the community's idea on this subject?

My personal ideas are such
Bots have very little impact upon game play. Sure they make it easier for newbs and lazy players to get that 100k extra. But what effect does that have upon the game? I can farm just as hard as a bot and still have the same amount of gold as what they sell.

Now I believe its wrong to ebay gold (Which is another point, Ebay is the perhaps the slackest gold sellers facility out there. But yet the main focus of the issue) Anet shold do all they can to prevent this mis-use of there game. But they hardly impact the game.

Famers. Another element of the market. Hate them or love them there a class unto themselves now. Just like runners.

Ahh the days when runners were heckled out of districts for cheating the game. Now there a requirement almost in the desert.
Farmers go and farm items of interest and sell them to other players, who are either too lazy to get them personally. Or aren't at the same skill level as there monster counter parts. Or they do it to make money.
Is it such a bad thing to make money?

Now some people will claim there not really playing the game. I think thats simply stupid. True its not following the missions. And it not PvP, but I think its still a valid game element.

As for the traders and sellers, I've only ever had alittle to do with this idea. Thats buying materials and stuff low and selling them high.

But I find it hard to believe that a few control the market and set all the price. I know there are afew high class traders, much like runners and farmers as a bussiness class. But controlling the prices... hummm.

Fossa · Oct 01, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

I think it's in great part due to online price guides. People check what things are worth and will sell at that price.

warren_kn · Oct 01, 2006, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fossa

I think it's in great part due to online price guides. People check what things are worth and will sell at that price.

Funny thing is, in-game items are worth what someone is willing to pay. The idea of a fixed price list is fine if everybody abides by it, but that clearly isn't the case.

Ninna · Oct 01, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

My personal ideas are such
Bots have very little impact upon game play ..what effect does that have upon the game?

ever done the Fort Aspenwood / Jade Quarry with Bots that continually enter matches and AFK the entire time ?

*ruins gameplay* for the other team members

Tainek · Oct 01, 2006, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

ever done the Fort Aspenwood / Jade Quarry with Bots that continually enter matches and AFK the entire time ?

*ruins gameplay* for the other team members

its pretty obvious he was reffering to farming bots, and those bots have 0 impact on the econemy

Roshi_ikkyu · Oct 01, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

ever done the Fort Aspenwood / Jade Quarry with Bots that continually enter matches and AFK the entire time ?

*ruins gameplay* for the other team members

Certainly not what I was meaning.

AFK bot are different, and don't even need to be bots. I could afk Jade quarry. In the grand design they don't impact the game either.

logan90 · Oct 01, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

its pretty obvious he was reffering to farming bots, and those bots have 0 impact on the econemy

What rock have you been hiding under? Farming bots do have an impact on the economy due to the use of the money they farm. They inflate the GW prices.

Bloodied Blade · Oct 01, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

^^
Can you prove this at all?

EDIT: By "those bots" I believe that he was referring to the so-called "afk bots", as the only impact on the economy that a farming bot should have would be lowering prices. More people would have an item, so there would be less demand. There also aren't many item-farming bots out there, so I'm still wondering how an ebayer of gold can inflate prices.

Clord · Oct 01, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by warren_kn

Funny thing is, in-game items are worth what someone is willing to pay. The idea of a fixed price list is fine if everybody abides by it, but that clearly isn't the case.

True. I was selling "The Purifier" with 50K and then after first message that I want to sell that item someone wanted to pay 35K from it.

gamecube187 · Oct 01, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

^^
Can you prove this at all?

EDIT: By "those bots" I believe that he was referring to the so-called "afk bots", as the only impact on the economy that a farming bot should have would be lowering prices. More people would have an item, so there would be less demand. There also aren't many item-farming bots out there, so I'm still wondering how an ebayer of gold can inflate prices.

Its the bots that farm for money or items they can sell for money and then they go e-bay that money, that ruins the economy.

Its because they have 100k gold. They sell it on e-bay. Someone buys it. They then buy items from players. Sometimes, just because they have so much money because they e-bayed, they pay just a little bit more than the item is worth. Then the person that sold it goes and tells someone else how much they sold it for. It then creates a chain that makes the item price now higher.

Also, there are much more than just one e-bayer, so that chain happens multiple times, with multiple items, which is called inflation.

Also, the people that buy the gold off e-bay would probably be buying a lot of items, and usually expensive ones. That means that the items will be in "high demand", so the sellers will slowly try to raise the price little by little and as long as it is still in "high demand", then it will keep raising because the sellers would want as much profit as possible.

This will also be happenening and create a chain of inflation.

Now of course this will be happening normally, without e-bayers, but not nearly as much. Without the e-bayers, only the people willing to work for their money will be able to buy the expensive things, and I'm pretty sure e-bayers buy the money so they don't have to work for it or because they won't work for it.

If there were no e-bayers, then those people buying the gold probably wouldn't have enough money as they would with e-baying, which means that there would be less people to cause the inflation, and less people willing to buy those weapons that are slowly raising in price.

In short, people buying gold off e-bay causes inflation.

hobbitshd · Oct 01, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

those 'afk bots' do affect the economy, slightly, at least the jade/amber aspect of it. but they definitely ruin the 'game' aspect of those missions.
--------------------------------------------
I think that the guides (like the guru one, which is great) affect the economy VERY much. i see people say ex="storm bow...guru 100k, selling for 20k less..." all the time. two sides of it though...
1. it is great so that people dont pay 400k for a req10 storm bow from a rip-off
2. it is not so great because people will only pay (ex.) 40-50k for that storm bow. period. not a hair more. it ALWAYS has to be in the stated price range.
------------------------------------
I have about 20-30 greens that i solo and sell for money. also, as a guild group, we do green 'runs' to sorrows and 2-3-4-5 man farms. the ones that do it make a bunch of money. and we have fun doing it. i dont think that we ruin the economy because the gold we make goes back into the game.
----------------------------------------------------------
runners - i think that running ruined prophecies a little. having said that, a guildie ran me to the desert on my 4th character because i was tired of the storyline content. i simply did not want to grind out all the misisons. i wanted to ascend a necro ASAP for UW 2 man stuff.
i like the factions idea of locking areas and folowing the mission/primary quests. but i have won the game on 4 characters and i am done with the missions/quests until nightfall because i cant get run.
so, i see both sides of the running thing.

Loviatar · Oct 01, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloodied Blade

^^
Can you prove this at all?

EDIT: By "those bots" I believe that he was referring to the so-called "afk bots", as the only impact on the economy that a farming bot should have would be lowering prices. More people would have an item, so there would be less demand. There also aren't many item-farming bots out there, so I'm still wondering how an ebayer of gold can inflate prices.

you are not an adult who has been around long enough to experience hyper inflation.

i will explain

IGN can supply a player with 20,000,000 gold in 2 hours or less.

current price is 49.99/1,000,000 game gold.

that is pumping gamegold into the game at a very high rate.

what happens when those buyers who buy bot gained gold start spending it in game?

i want that i bid 250k
ok 500k

the prices go up as people bid things up

inflation

look it up and you will see actual buying power going down

Wobrak · Oct 01, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

IMHO,
Gold farmers (bots) do nothing to the actual game economy.

Item sellers and buyers are the ones who inflate or deflate the price of an item.
We, the players of the game, are the ones who set these prices and we are the ones who willingly pay these prices. A "bot" does neither.

Example:
There is a Sephis Axe currently being auctioned. The current bid is 920,000 gold. Why is the price that high? Because the seller knows there is a buyer willing to pay that price. A "bot" didn't set the price and a "bot" isn't paying that price. If you were to take that same item to the in-game merchant you would only get maybe 500 gold.

So, the only people to blame for a bad or good game economy is ourselves.

sykoone · Oct 01, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

That is a flawed piece of logic there. Sure, the buyers and sellers set the price, but if the buyer got his 2000k+ from buying gold off of ebay, then the botters had an influence on the price.

Mimi Miyagi · Oct 01, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Prices of items fluctuate simply due to supply and demand.

When a new item is introduced into the GW economy, the prices are severely inflated. Stats are secondary to skins, or whatever happens to be the new "ego stroking" flavor of the day. Even two similar items, only separated by it's skin can vary widely in price. Collector items are for the most part just as good, if not superior, to their "unique" counterparts, yet are worthless because of looks and availability.

For example - the IDS craze. When first discovered, the price of the weapon was just ridiculous. As time went on, the price dropped because everyone was farming them. Because they became fairly common, anyone could buy them, and the prices dropped to a more reasonable cost.

But as far as gold availability is concerned - the game has too many easy ways to make cash for people that want to expend the time and effort to farm for it. Because there is little to do once you finish the game, most people simply amuse themselves by 2 man farming UW for ectos, or solo farming griffons. A lot of people blame the "bot farmers" yet the VAST majority of people are rich simply through normal play, and farming. There is a very large player base that exploited the 55 monk back before the skills got nerfed, then switched to 2 man monk/necro, or adapted their builds and/or changed locations. Heck, all of the money I've earned over the course of gameplay (enough to outfit 6 different characters with 15K armor, sometimes multiple sets) was mostly via farming tengu for runes, or making Tombs or B/P UW runs. And I'm only a casual farmer, I don't spend 8 hours a day doing it, in fact back when I played the game more often, I'd average maybe 1-2 hours a day simply farming.

Thus, for the more dedicated farmers, making money is incredibly easy. There is a HUGE player base with stupid money. Only the very lazy players buy gold off of ebay to get Fissure Armor.

Money is very easy to make. Blaming all of the ills of the GW economy on "bots" is naive. Sure, they have an impact, but I doubt it's very statistically relevant. Players over time have simply exploited the economy via farming, buy low sell high of items, commodity trading, etc. They have idiotic amounts of cash, and very little to spend it on except for the most vanity based items.

Oct 01, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

from what i can tell, prices in game are conrtroled by some 6-10 price-check-gurus on this forum.

people follow what they say so blindly that they and the stickies control the market.

rofl on how fast this thread turned into bot argument.

Taurohtar · Oct 01, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Maybe a little offtopic but I don't see how people can buy something so low and sell it so much higher to make any money out if it when measured on a GOLD:TIME ratio.

On topic, I don't have a problem with Ebay selling gold. Like you say it's for lazy players. In my opinion its for players who do not want to waste there precious time killing the same monster over and over again just to obtain gold. I'll admit it, I have no problem with eBay selling gold. I will also admit that I have bought gold from eBay, not because I am lazy, but because I simply value my time to such an extent, I will not waste so much of it obtaining an ingame item.

Roshi_ikkyu · Oct 01, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Another point I wish to add, there has been a few interesting ones made so far, The gold is going to be there anyway!
Bots aren't taking anything from the game there collecting it.
I mean a farmer can make just as much in a single sitting as a Bot could.

Sure the farmer won't be there 24/7. but if you do the math: 10k an hour ( which from what I understand is a decent if not high end average of gold farmed per hour) meaning for 10'000k it would take 1'000 hrs.

Thats alot of hours. Ofcourse real gold suppliers would have more then one bot working. The bot aren't influencing the gold drops, they do influence Anet into Nerfing certain areas but that effects casual farmers aswell.

also remember try to remain civil.
Farmers are not bots; like runner and power levelers there people engaging in a different sort of game play.

Roshi_ikkyu · Oct 01, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurohtar

Maybe a little offtopic but I don't see how people can buy something so low and sell it so much higher to make any money out if it when measured on a GOLD:TIME ratio.

On topic, I don't have a problem with Ebay selling gold. Like you say it's for lazy players. In my opinion its for players who do not want to waste there precious time killing the same monster over and over again just to obtain gold. I'll admit it, I have no problem with eBay selling gold. I will also admit that I have bought gold from eBay, not because I am lazy, but because I simply value my time to such an extent, I will not waste so much of it obtaining an ingame item.

Buying low and selling high, Is when you buy it most times from someone who doesn't know the market price. And then sell it for the current market price.

And very brave admiting to breaking the rules of the game without posting your characters name

I really don't care if you've ebay-ed gold or not. And lets not beat up to harshly on him just for admiting it. People do it and his opinion is welcomed on the matter.

NinjaKai · Oct 01, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clord

True. I was selling "The Purifier" with 50K and then after first message that I want to sell that item someone wanted to pay 35K from it.

I just say what i'm wanting to sell. When someone whisps me with an offer. I tell them what I want for it. I then barter to a price thats in between both prices. Fair for both parties.